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Non-Classical Poetry

in Poetry Discussion

Something I have thought a lot about is how I usually see poetry defined as classical poetry, which I don't think is accurate.

Poetry is the opposite of prose, right? Well, prose isn't a genre itself; it is a collection of genres, both in subject matter and length of writing. Accordingly, poetry isn't a genre either. And yes, within classical poetry there are genres such as epic poetry, free verse, and narrative poetry. But I think there are even more.

Sometimes people say that not many people like poetry. I don't think that's true; I think everyone, or at least most people, likes poetry, but only a minority likes classical poetry. Most people like listening to songs. What are songs if not poems set to music? And would you say that Der Erlkoenig (Goethe+Schubert) or Ode to Joy (Schiller+Beethoven) aren't poetry just because they are set to music? No, you wouldn't. And poetry originally was sung; it only started to take on its written form I would guess during the Information Revolution around the Renaissance.

Now, we have many genres of poetry. We have classical poetry (written), spoken word/slam poetry (which I think is relatively popular), children's verse (eg. Dr. Seuss), song lyrics (extremely popular), religious songs, cowboy poetry, etc. And I think that when we consider all the genres of poetry, it is actually very popular and even universal.

If someone doesn't like reading classics like Austen or Dickens, would you say they don't like to read? No--chances are they like fantasy, or nonfiction, or graphic novels. Just like there is a kind of prose for everyone, there is a kind of poetry for everyone.

So what do you think? Do you agree? This is something I feel very strongly about, and I would like to hear other people's thoughts on the subject.

7 comments

Comments (7)

Yvonne Calder

Oct 11

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Hi I am late adding my twopence to this thread. The problem for poetry is the only general statement is ‘you can never say never’. Yes songs can be poems. The reason behind thinking they weren’t poems was because the rhythmic work was done by the music. I listen to a podcast on writing songs ( I will need to look up my YouTube history to find the link) there are three approaches to writing lyrics, focusing on poetics was only 1 method. If you wanted to create a unique guitar ‘lick’ you started with the music.

Any set text is going to be a problem as not all poems in any era are accessible or enjoyable to everybody. The other problem for school courses is not everybody wants to understand ‘theories of literary devices’. You should be able to join a class of appreciation rather than having to analyse the texts.

I want to say more about conventionalism but this comment will become to rambling. Hoping you return to this thread. What you have raised is important

Ghost of a Goddess

Oct 11

Replying to

I really like what you said about having poetry classes for appreciation rather than analysis. I think the way poetry is taught in schools is really destined to turn people away from poetry.

It isn't even just poetry, though. I was thinking earlier today about how much I'm dreading having to do assignments on Frankenstein in ELA class once we finish the book. I like classics and read them because I genuinely enjoy them or think they are well-written (and if I don't think either of those about a book I won't read it). I already finished Frankenstein and really liked it, but now I have to transfer from a mode of appreciating the book to a mandatory analytical mode. And again, I enjoy analyzing poetry and classic books and do it anyway out of my own free will, but now I will be forced to do it and will be graded on it. For people who don't already like classical writings, I see why they grow to hate them, since it's probably much worse for them.

Adam Gary

Oct 01

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You make some very interesting points. There’s a lot to go away and think about here.

But yes I have to agree, poetry education in schools needs reform. Evidently on a global scale… I thought it was just a UK issue

Herb Hagell

Aug 26

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I agree that most people like poetry because, at the heart, songs are poems. We have a school system that berates students with classics with which they have no connection. And teachers push to complete tired, dry assignments. When the students completes school, this is their reference to 'poetry'. It takes a die hard fan to get beyond that. Cheers!

Ghost of a Goddess

Aug 26

Replying to

I've had several people tell me that they don't like poetry because they could never understand it. Of course they would have a hard time understanding poetry if the poems they read in school is in Elizabethian or Victorian poetic English that they have to figure out on top of the poetry itself or they have to read less accessible poets like Dickinson (not to hate on her, but her poetry actually requires deciphering, unlike most poets, and teachers and textbooks have students read her a lot instead of, say, Whitman or Teasdale).

And don't even get me started on the whole idea that teachers and students have that poetry is a puzzle you have to analyze and figure out. Collins wrote a poem about this called "Introduction to Poetry", which I would highly recommend.

I've heard of some teachers/professors using song lyrics in classes, which I think can solve problems of accessibility and interest. There is a Youtuber (he's not active anymore) called the Pop Song Professor who talks about this.

Athanase De Jadis

Aug 27

Replying to

In France, the main concern of translators of foreign poetry is to understand ‘what it means’. I always reply that it's poetry, not an essay, and that the meaning is only one of the elements of the text: poetry is above all music (especially in highly intonated languages like English, German or Russian, but even in French). Unfortunately, today, the musical aspect is all too often overlooked in favour of meaning. I recently read a bilingual version of poems (in German) by Ingeborg Bachmann, where the translator insisted on meaning. Honestly, if you don't speak German, you might well ask yourself what's so interesting about Bachmann's work.

Translated with DeepL.com (free version)

Ghost of a Goddess

Aug 27

Replying to

Exactly. And one of my favorite things about reading poetry is the emotional impact. If you write, translate, or read while focusing on meaning, you are missing the fundamental emotional aspect of poetry. And having a nice sound is what makes an okay poem with good content into a great poem.