This is an idea I've battled with for the last few months of writing poetry. Does poetry have to have a greater meaning or purpose? Does it need to be deep, introspective or even moralistic? I always think about this in reference to nonsense poems where there isn't more to the poem than just enjoying the rhyme or rhythm or nonsense of it and how you don't see too much of it anymore (though if it is there please direct me).
Loads of poems delve into sociopolitical issues, gender, sexuality, race all very important issues that NEED to be spoken about and it always makes me wonder if I should maybe write more on those subjects. I just haven't found a genuine way to do that. I'm wondering if anyone has had the same sort of experience or your relationships with poetry and how you view it.
My justification is that if you look at tonnes of art there isn't as much of a push for artist to create meaningful, introspective or moralistic art (well not on online spaces for the most part. There were definitely periods in art history where religious art with themes supporting biblical teachings was championed and nowadays art delves into the topics I listed in the second paragraph). Tonnes of art is pretty for pretty's sake so does poetry have to be any different?
Definitely felt that need to basically add a moral to my poem and I still feel it a lot but I'm always like "who am I to say do this or do that? I don't even know the right answer lol." so I try to focus on feelings instead.
I love this discussion due in large part to the fact that I've had the same question writing poetry. I will share sort of how I think about it that makes sense to me and how I typically like to proceed with poetry. This idea has already been referenced in the above thread, but I figured I would echo the sentiment!
So, I think there is a middle ground between "saying something", or in other words sort of imparting knowledge upon someone" with a poem and writing a poem that may exist for the sole purpose of exploring wordplay or the technical nature of poetry. I used to feel as though I had to come to a conclusion when I wrote on a heavier topic. I felt like I had to give the reader a lesson or state a definitive opinion on the subject which is a great deal of pressure. Instead, what I've learned to do is simply raise a question about the topic by just observing. You can just write about how things are without it really meaning a ton. You can just observe something or raise a question or just present something in a way where your reader can ask their own questions.
What I have also found in peer review, writing groups etc. is that when you simply observe/comment rather than delving into anything prescriptive, you really allow the reader to draw their own conclusions which i have noticed earns the reader's trust. They feel a bit more empowered without feeling the pressure to agree/disagree with the opinion in the poem!
Like i said before, I know you all have probably stated a similar idea, but I figured I'd say it a way that makes sense to me in case it helps someone else!
Heya Jay, if you haven't already, I'd recommend giving some of the other threads in the 'Poetry Discussions' a read in regards to your question! Particularly the ones critiquing insta-poetry because the question of what poetry 'needs' to be is brought up very often. We have gone back and forth and forth and back discussing our thoughts and feelings on this :P
In a nutshell, my personal opinion is that if a poem is very interesting and well written/expressed, it's good. By good, I mean anything from incredibly original to in-depth and thought-provoking, emotive, resonating, clever, fun, expressive, unique in imagery and expression, and maybe even shocking or funny. Bottom line is, a poem should have some kind of impact on the reader that changes them ever-so-slightly after they have read it.
But I feel a bit obliged to address this part of your post: Loads of poems delve into sociopolitical issues, gender, sexuality, race all very important issues that NEED to be spoken about and it always makes me wonder if I should maybe write more on those subjects.
...as a woman, and an ethnic one at that, may I just say: don't fall for it.
I don't mean that too literally- of course these are extremely important topics we shouldn't be discouraging anyone to write on, and if you do want to write on these topics without societal pressure- then go for it! Show us something new, or 'look deeper' behind these issues, as Adam discussed above. But when sociopolitical issues and gender/sexuality, etc. is all we are expected to write on (especially if it personally effects us (i.e. me being a woman and ethnic)), it becomes problematic on its own (we go quite deep into this very topic in Adam's post 'What happened to poetry?', or it was called something very similar. I think you'll find all our discourse very insightful. It was a fun thread to participate in, lol, and everyone had great things to contribute. Definitely worth a read!
Apologies if this does come across a bit vague, but I hope it answers your question somewhat!
Great thread, Jay.
I hate to play "It Depends" card, yet in this case its true.
The way I like to think is there are two poets.
Poets who write to express.
They feel their art is the MOST important work in the world,and so they will make their work DEEP and meaningful.How they may do it,to give ideas,they may talk about political issues,what appeals to certain communities,and even their own experiences within life.Its a case of them simply wanting to be heard,so they will write with either the audience in mind,validation or write because they have something they want to say,intention. Sometimes both,which is why,for better, or worst,social media exists.
Then poet two,literally has nothing to say.Because they're not pandering to any specific audience,nor algorithm,which gives them lee way to write about anything. And ain't bother by vanity metrics.They write for joy of it,diary like,yet have no genuine interest in thought provoking ideas.This maybe base in subjectivity rather objectivity.One poet has an objective and the other does not.
Base on my own experience,I can say this happens if a poem is purely a stream of consciousness.Hell,I think one of my more recent poems was a stream of consciousness.With no point,intention or story they want to tell.Simply put,get words out of their system.
Poetry doesn't have to say anything.
At all. When I originally start it,I have to make EVERY poem say something.However,as I continue in this strange world,every poem can and cannot say something.And it's not the case of if it has meaning,it might be more of a case if a poet is willing to give a poem one.
I don't think poetry has to have any deeper meanings. The piece could be a visual poem, where the words play like a picture on the page or it could be a short poem that describes a scene or it could be just playing with the sound of words but then of course it could be a poem about eating chicken which is really a comment on the hypocrisy of society.
Just write what feels natural for you.
I think if I’ve learnt anything in my journey about poetry and art in general is to always look deeper. Speaking to people who have studied art when they have taken me to museums and such and me being the layman I am not understanding what the big deal is, I’ve learnt there’s always more to it. When I’ve said to my friend, yeah that’s pretty I guess and then have them tell the story behind the painting what the artist is actually trying to say, opens up a whole new world and understanding. I see things I never noticed before!
So now when I come to a poem that I think is just about, say… a rainy day. Its important for me to really question if that’s actually the case. What’s under the surface. A lot of art or poetry can seem like there’s not much to them, but the usually a whole underworld to it! Poetry is filled with secrets because we have the tool of metaphor to disguise things.
Having said that, your poetry can be about anything you like. You’re the one in control of your words. If you want to write a fun relaxed poem you can! A good poet can write an enjoyable poem about anything! Even clipped toe nails! The theme is up to you!
@The Garish Grackle is a master of analysis over on our blog, just thought I’d give her a shout out because she’s awesome and I’ve learned so much about breaking down a poem from her!
I can't wait to get a moment to get back to this properly! Looking forward to seeing the discussion on this! Thanks Jay!